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chad reid
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 12:00 AM |
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The speedways web site says that they are tilling in an organic mixture into the existing clay. Am I to assume this is top soil or some kind of peat mixture? I know what happens when you add water to topsoil and I have seen first hand what peat does when you roll over it. I've been in road constuction for the better part of 13 years now and when we build a new road we take out the organics for a reason.
I wonder if the engineer out of Cali has ever visited the rainy northwest? I wonder if Skagit is the first track that this is being tried? If there has been a successful installation of this surface type before why has it not been referenced? I'm worried the track is in for a really rough year. Please explain if your in the know.
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goinrcn44h
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 04:20 AM |
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from the looks of it when they say organic.... it looks like the organic end of a cow...or similar animal....
The track was basically crap for the most part last year, next year it will literally be crap......
Attachment: image001.gif (Downloaded 755 times)
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racemom4469
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 04:41 AM |
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Good one Mike!
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Alaskan
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 05:12 AM |
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Its preparation for paving the track.....
Last edited on Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 05:25 PM by Alaskan
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racemom4469
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 05:17 AM |
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| So WHAT is in the "Organic Material"?????????????
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Alaskan
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 05:33 AM |
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ground up hemp....
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racemom4469
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 05:35 AM |
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| Thats a waste!
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Alaskan
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 05:42 AM |
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tell me about it....
gotta have a talk with that boy....
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racemom4469
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 05:44 AM |
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| Seriously other then hemp, what else is in it? I just want to know how it is going to stay together.
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Alaskan
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 05:49 AM |
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cow chit...it all came from over there in Stanwood
Last edited on Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 05:51 AM by Alaskan
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racemom4469
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 05:51 AM |
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| Great, hemp and cowsh**, should make for some nice dust!
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Alaskan
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 05:54 AM |
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that was the whole idea... !
Last edited on Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 05:55 AM by Alaskan
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racemom4469
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 05:57 AM |
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| Well we sure gave this topic, some "thoughts" on resurfacing!
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flaggerinthree
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 06:50 PM |
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racemom4469 wrote: Seriously other then hemp, what else is in it? I just want to know how it is going to stay together.
He put more dry-wall init too!!!
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racemom4469
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 06:59 PM |
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| Suppose if it works, then so be it, at least organic is organic, drywall isn't.
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goinrcn44h
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 07:37 PM |
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Drywall is made up mainly of gypsum which is a naturally occuring substance. which in theory would make it 'organic'. anyone that has worked drywall knows it makes dust that is about as fine and unbearable as one can imagine.... Makes one wonder if we are combatting a dust problem then why are we adding to it ??
44H
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racemom4469
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 07:39 PM |
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I knew I could get a straight answer somewhere!
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MandGRacing96
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 07:43 PM |
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| So lemmee get this straight. People was moanin and cryin cause they didnt do anything with the surface last year. So they are making a effort to improve the surface...and yall still bitchin and snipin at him? I guess one could say if someone knows so much about preppin a racing surface maybe they should help the track out? Or just keep complaining about it...haha
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JB
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 08:39 PM |
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you cant help its his way or no way. i never heard any bitchin bout what wasnt being done just what was done. when its slick and wide its one of the funnest tracks to race on. when its wet its dusty, when it dry its more dusty either way its dusty. if its cow poop in it dont smile lol
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goinrcn44h
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 08:50 PM |
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Personally I don't think we have a dust problem, and I have never thought dust was a problem, I think our bigger problem is too much moisture.. i.e. slop in the gutters making the track narrow and unpassable, or its soft and rough resulting in tore up cars. I say let it slick off, get wide run from the fence to the gutter and all would be happier. thats my opinion. I raced motocross 14 years , i'm no rookie to racing in cow crap by any means. I just hope the track is racey, and wide so we can put on a good show for the fans and have some 2 wide or even 3 wide racing and isn't all hooked up all night. tear offs at 30 bucks a sleeve a night get spendy....
44H
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racemom4469
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 08:57 PM |
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And on that note, dust is dust, its a dirt track, in the stands on several occasions this past season, you could NOT see whom was crossing the finish line because of the dust. That is a fact! But I along with others want to know WHAT we are breathing, as in WHAT is in the organic material other then what has been stated. I am not bitching, just asking questions is all.
PS COW SH** does not hold up under any conditions such as moisture, so hopefully there is very little of that in the material.
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parkerracing
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 09:32 PM |
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Man, there are so many variables in preping a dirt track.....Seasons,overcast/sunny, windy/calm, dewpoint, classes and car counts........that's a job were a guy can go from hero to zero and back to hero with out doing a damn thing different from week to week.
It would appear that great attempt are being made to improve the PH and Moisture retension abilities of the track. Ain't nothing wrong with that........Hopefully, some early pre season test and tunes may be an indicator to success.
As far as worring about what your breathing, well I almost coughed milk threw my nose.....As we eat hambugers and hot dogs with who knows what in them and sit breathing excess race fuel fumes that are 100x more concintrated than the crap we were breathing getting to the track via a 2hour road trip, I would be more concerned about chocking on a dust burger.......But that doesn't mean you shouldn't care about what you are breathing. I just don't think gypsum and some bullring dropping are gonna send me to the grave any sonner than the next election.
Any racer will tell you that if he had the track to himself, as heavy as it could be is how he would want it, but when you have to share the track with 150 othercars in differant classes, I agree that a dry-slcik track is the one that tears up less cars and makes for a better show, if you can keep the dust down....
Tony
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cssprint
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Posted: Monday Oct 13th, 2008 12:06 AM |
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goinrcn44h wrote: Personally I don't think we have a dust problem, and I have never thought dust was a problem,
44H
I talked to some of the outlaws who could not see the track at the end of the race and they were driving on it! (They refered to Skagit as a "dust bowl") I sit in the stands right below the tower when I visit Skagit and there have been many occasions that I could not see turn 4.
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NWFAN
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Posted: Monday Oct 13th, 2008 01:25 AM |
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cssprint wrote: goinrcn44h wrote: Personally I don't think we have a dust problem, and I have never thought dust was a problem,
44H
I talked to some of the outlaws who could not see the track at the end of the race and they were driving on it! (They refered to Skagit as a "dust bowl") I sit in the stands right below the tower when I visit Skagit and there have been many occasions that I could not see turn 4.
you know guys, I have been sitting down in turn one for 15 years and lets face it...most of the time the "dust is in the bowl". Ambient air temperature is the deal here my friends...
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justafan
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Posted: Monday Oct 13th, 2008 08:18 AM |
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When I was at the track a couple weeks ago I asked what they were putting in the dirt. I was told it was an organic mixture made up of composted green material like grass, leaves ground branches etc. Steve said they did not use the cow poop organics because of the health issues related to it.
Chad when building a road you don't want 'organics' or any material that will hold water or you get surface failure, that's common sense. Read the article, Beitler says it's supposed to bind the silt and the fine stuff together to hold the dust down. If it reduces dust maybe he won't have to dig it up or water it so much. The track is always rough the first part of the season, or at least it has been the past 30 some years.
I also know that most topsoil yards use gypsum in the mixture. The gypsum/calcium enriches the soil. Once gypsum is disolved with water it does not regain a solid form without heat pressure and binding agents.
You people get on here and bi**h because they never tell you what's going on, then when they do you bi**h about what they are telling you. But I guess if you consider the family that makes most of the comments you would understand.
Rick, you sound like you know what your talking about. Wow, someone on here with some knowledge, oh my
I think it's great that they are trying to make it better, I am ready for next year!
Last edited on Monday Oct 13th, 2008 08:26 AM by justafan
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FastFreddie20
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Posted: Monday Oct 13th, 2008 08:32 AM |
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sprintcarz
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Posted: Monday Oct 13th, 2008 10:26 AM |
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justafan wrote: Steve said they did not use the cow poop organics because of the health issues related to it.
I think it's great that they are trying to make it better, I am ready for next year!
So as I understand it- 2009 at Skagit Speedway will not include any "BS"?
Now if the other tracks could just follow suit.
Last edited on Monday Oct 13th, 2008 10:28 AM by
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Dryslick
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Posted: Monday Oct 13th, 2008 04:28 PM |
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goinrcn44h wrote: Personally I don't think we have a dust problem, and I have never thought dust was a problem,
The dust at Skagit is horrible! It may not present itself in the pits as that bad, but in the stands it is ridiculous. And yes I have stayed away on occasions because of it. You can still have a dry wide racey track with out a dust cloud if you have the correct material as a racing surface. Most tracks do.
I have to commend Steve for working to make this a better place to race and to "watch" a race. I know many label him as "not being a listener" but obviously he's listening to someone and is trying to do something. I'm sure he wasn't very happy to hear the comments that was said after the Outlaw show.
Lets just thank God he's trying. It's when he quits trying is when we need to worry.
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racemom4469
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Posted: Monday Oct 13th, 2008 04:30 PM |
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I am defending myself and any others afraid to on here. I asked simple questions, as to what is in the organic material on here, I along with others want to know. There are FACTS stated on here, The outlaws from what I heard did call it a dust bowl, it has been a dust bowl more then a few times, and more then a few times there were MANY cars torn up and the racers SAID it was because the track just was a mess for WHATEVER the hell reason it was, these are FRIKKEN FACTS. Not bitching FACTS. I can remember always 2 wide and 3 wide of cars passing, cars going up along the fence to pass, and now it seems to be follow the leader, not nearly as good of a race to watch as years past. I have been around long enough to see how the track has changed, I have spoke with a previous track owner who told me thier opinions on the material on the track, I have spoke to people, (who Know) about dust and breathing it. If it were that bad, I would be dead for sure, but with new stuff being added i just wanted to know. I remember a almost perfect track many times in the past, I along with countless others would like to see it that way again. Nothing has changed with the track itself but making it bigger and wider OTHER then what goes in it. I do not think we are wrong in asking questions. So JUSTAFAN, if you know so much why is the track not like it used to be????????
PS STEVE IS PUTTING FORTH THE EFFORT TO MAKE IT A BETTER TRACK AND WE, AND (countless others) THANK HIM FOR THAT.
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sprintcarz
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Posted: Monday Oct 13th, 2008 04:37 PM |
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racemom4469 wrote: I am defending myself and any others afraid to on here. I asked simple questions, as to what is in the organic material on here, I along with others want to know. There are FACTS stated on here, The outlaws from what I heard did call it a dust bowl, it has been a dust bowl more then a few times, and more then a few times there were MANY cars torn up and the racers SAID it was because the track just was a mess for WHATEVER the hell reason it was, these are FRIKKEN FACTS. Not bitching FACTS. I can remember always 2 wide and 3 wide of cars passing, cars going up along the fence to pass, and now it seems to be follow the leader, not nearly as good of a race to watch as years past. I have been around long enough to see how the track has changed, I have spoke with a previous track owner who told me thier opinions on the material on the track, I have spoke to people, (who Know) about dust and breathing it. If it were that bad, I would be dead for sure, but with new stuff being added i just wanted to know. I remember a almost perfect track many times in the past, I along with countless others would like to see it that way again. Nothing has changed with the track itself but making it bigger and wider OTHER then what goes in it. I do not think we are wrong in asking questions. So JUSTAFAN, if you know so much why is the track not like it used to be????????
PS STEVE IS PUTTING FORTH THE EFFORT TO MAKE IT A BETTER TRACK AND WE, AND (countless others) THANK HIM FOR THAT.
Global Warming?
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Ronnie Lake
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Posted: Monday Oct 13th, 2008 04:44 PM |
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LMAO
sprintcarz wrote:
Global Warming?
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757-APEX
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Posted: Monday Oct 13th, 2008 05:04 PM |
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sprintcarz wrote:
Global Warming?
Vote Democrat - For a better track surface (Al Gore where are you, our track is too dusty.)
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racemom4469
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Posted: Monday Oct 13th, 2008 05:12 PM |
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| The track will always be dusty because it is dirt, I get that, that isn't he question or the issue, it is about whats in the track surface. I don't give a SH** what it is in it, ( GREEN OR NOT) IF it fixes the problems at hand.
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Kelly Hart
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Posted: Monday Oct 13th, 2008 06:02 PM |
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757-APEX wrote: sprintcarz wrote:
Global Warming?
Vote Democrat - For a better track surface (Al Gore where are you, our track is too dusty.)
Didn't Algore invent Dirt too?
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goinrcn44h
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Posted: Monday Oct 13th, 2008 06:27 PM |
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I've said it before and I'll say it again, I will take dust over mud any day of the week...... And, if there is or has been anything in the dirt or dust that would kill me I would have been really really dead a long long time ago. I complain sometimes about the track, but here's the rub, I believe I have the right to complain, I support skagit by racing a car up there and I spectate when I am not racing a car up there. I was there every single race this year but one, thats when I went to montana to race a 2 day show, which hurt me in the points but I really didnt care all that much. Everyone that races up there does it for one simple reason, it's to have fun, end of story. Not a single racer up there is going to get rich by racing a sprint car. With that said , being able to wing it into the corner at 100+ 2 wide racing wheel to wheel someone is what makes it all worth while. However too many times this year we had a terribly greasy bottom 25 foot burnt out dusty middle groove and not much of a top of the track. Usually the 410's were able to get a top worked in but that didn't do much for the 360 race . I don't think he needs to reinvent the wheel here, but alter a few of the things and the order in which he does things and it would be better. But, and this is the single biggest thing here, it's steves track, and steve is going to do whatever steve thinks is best. period.
44H
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sprintcarz
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Posted: Monday Oct 13th, 2008 06:35 PM |
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Kelly Hart wrote: 757-APEX wrote: sprintcarz wrote:
Global Warming?
Vote Democrat - For a better track surface (Al Gore where are you, our track is too dusty.)
Didn't Algore invent Dirt too?
Maybe somewhere else Al Gore invented dirt. But at Skagit, Jim Raper did. And that is probably the era most are refering to when they reference the better race track surface of years past.
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racemom4469
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Posted: Monday Oct 13th, 2008 07:57 PM |
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| EXACTLY!
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SAFEWAY KELLY
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Posted: Monday Oct 13th, 2008 08:41 PM |
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When Fred first took over Skagit, he mixed something into the clay that backfired. Maybe George Hespe can help out on what it was. I remember going up the week before playday and the tractors were up to their axels trying to work the track in. Playday couldn't get the track worked in and the first of a two day opener was cancelled. I think they ended up scraping most of the top layer off and the track was fine. The season opener was so rough that I think Steve Beitler's car even loaded up with clay on the back stretch.
Nothing to relate to this subject-just a remember when thought.
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mdtroy
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Posted: Monday Oct 13th, 2008 10:26 PM |
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I do remember that Fred resurfaced one year with blue clay off of the hillside outside of turn one and one year John Youngquist helped him plant winter wheat to try to get some hummus (sp) built into the surface that would retain moisture.
Kelly I think you are thinking of the year that he put the new clay on. Was VERY rough for most of the first half of the year.
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genxsignshop
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Posted: Monday Oct 13th, 2008 11:26 PM |
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goinrcn44h wrote: I've said it before and I'll say it again, I will take dust over mud any day of the week...... And, if there is or has been anything in the dirt or dust that would kill me I would have been really really dead a long long time ago. I complain sometimes about the track, but here's the rub, I believe I have the right to complain, I support skagit by racing a car up there and I spectate when I am not racing a car up there. I was there every single race this year but one, thats when I went to montana to race a 2 day show, which hurt me in the points but I really didnt care all that much. Everyone that races up there does it for one simple reason, it's to have fun, end of story. Not a single racer up there is going to get rich by racing a sprint car. With that said , being able to wing it into the corner at 100+ 2 wide racing wheel to wheel someone is what makes it all worth while. However too many times this year we had a terribly greasy bottom 25 foot burnt out dusty middle groove and not much of a top of the track. Usually the 410's were able to get a top worked in but that didn't do much for the 360 race . I don't think he needs to reinvent the wheel here, but alter a few of the things and the order in which he does things and it would be better. But, and this is the single biggest thing here, it's steves track, and steve is going to do whatever steve thinks is best. period.
44H
We're with 44H on this one as sponsors and as fans we have been in the the pits where there's hardly any dust ,but watched it over our heads and in the stands sure there was dust but never killed us, in some ways it was a badge of honor to say WOW we were at the track(as our boys put it). But watering down of the track is OK to keep the dust down during the hot and dry times but it dose not need to be so muddy it has to down cars or literally down cars with so much weight. We have worked on cars first hand and seen the damages from the muddy clay and yes in defense other accidents as well it was not a pretty sight as you all already know the damage it causes. It's amazing to watch at times, but can really put a dent in the racers or owners pocket books. When leaving the track after the evening events it is so hard to get out because the clay is just caked on your shoes and you can see the water squish up as you walk. Ok enough from us. We always get in trouble for speaking our mind but hey it's the life of an outlaw.
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