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ReverendDave
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Posted: Wednesday Oct 8th, 2008 07:44 PM |
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Why would i want to go out of town when i have what we have right here in our back yard ... 86 the the 380 thing that you admit is ...STUPID... and let us move on ...stay on DOT let us buy were we want ...And buy them from who we want to buy them from . just come up with some sort of limit or claim that works for every one . If you went to a cap are you going to keep 13 14 15 of all sizes in stock . I think not ... So now what ???when some one takes the side off there car and needs tires asap what do we do ????? The guy that has the dot tires in stock will have me one the next day ....and cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep 
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Rooky1
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Posted: Wednesday Oct 8th, 2008 07:58 PM |
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| If we run DOT tires or any other tire I think it should be illegal to shave them.
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wingless_warrior
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Posted: Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 12:37 AM |
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MINI STOCK 34 wrote: They need to stay on a DOT tire. It goes with the spirit of the class and is availiable in all sizes. With so many using 13 14 and 15 it is best way to go. You all need to get off this treadwear rating too. I would say drop it totally and put a 60 or 70 dollar claim on your tires. It's the easiest way to do it really. If you think someone's tire is better than yours, then claim (buy it). The short track goodyears are not the best way to go. they are pricey and will make the faster cars even faster. I have tried them and will contest to that. Be smart with this and look big picture at this. Hope this helps.
You are right Jim, the tire needs to stay a DOT tire for the spirit of the division. There are FIVE Nankangs for sale in the 205 60 14 and they are $99.00 per tire if you want em, I'll hook you right up with the store who has them in stock. There are no 195's for your stagger but I have a few I'll let loose of...lol Tire price has come up no matter which brand or size you want to run. The cap would need to be $90-$100 per tire cause no matter what you choose, you're gonna pay for them more than the last time you bought tires. Big O quoted me $90+ for the Sumitomo 200 and said they would racers discount them for me down to $88 bucks per tire but I understand from the people who raced on them, they are not that great of a tire.
I'll run out the pile we have and will most likely have plenty brand new ones (Thanks Monkey Business for buying us the pile of em) until we are done with the mini's but the cars being built and cars needing new shoes will not find a 601 type tire without dropping the tread wear thing possibly omitting it all together.
Mini's start your computers! Find a tire you think may work and post it so we can get crackin with some info.
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wingless_warrior
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Posted: Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 02:05 AM |
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| Speaking of mini stocks and tires, I posted a Toyota cam in parts and pieces that will help tear the rubber right off a Toyota mini stock if interested.....
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ministock05
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Posted: Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 03:44 AM |
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I have done a LOT of research on tires..... I feel that what ever is decided I will still have a competative set of tires.... BUT..... The officials should keep this in mind and they will too learn this if they do the research about tires.... First is that if you choose a treadwear rating you then make it so many cars are on different tires, therefore making the cars on different playing fields.. If the track picks one tire for all cars then that is better. (BUT the tire needs to be softer then the nan kang because we have track records to beat and a harder tire wont help) Second is I too dont want to buy wheels but the Goodyear Short Track Specials seem to be the way to go.. Reasons: they are only 15-20 dollars more than a good DOT tire and you could get a full season out of 6 tires (the inside tires dont wear alot, especialy if your set up is right)... So why not have a race tire on a race car???? Just my thoughts. Also allow others to use up the old nan kangs if they choose too.
PS: Glad this came up because I was late for the meeting and did not want to jump into the tire issue because it was going on when we walked in...
Last edited on Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 03:45 AM by ministock05
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ministock05
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Posted: Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 03:48 AM |
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wingless_warrior wrote: MINI STOCK 34 wrote: They need to stay on a DOT tire. It goes with the spirit of the class and is availiable in all sizes. With so many using 13 14 and 15 it is best way to go. You all need to get off this treadwear rating too. I would say drop it totally and put a 60 or 70 dollar claim on your tires. It's the easiest way to do it really. If you think someone's tire is better than yours, then claim (buy it). The short track goodyears are not the best way to go. they are pricey and will make the faster cars even faster. I have tried them and will contest to that. Be smart with this and look big picture at this. Hope this helps.
You are right Jim, the tire needs to stay a DOT tire for the spirit of the division. There are FIVE Nankangs for sale in the 205 60 14 and they are $99.00 per tire if you want em, I'll hook you right up with the store who has them in stock. There are no 195's for your stagger but I have a few I'll let loose of...lol Tire price has come up no matter which brand or size you want to run. The cap would need to be $90-$100 per tire cause no matter what you choose, you're gonna pay for them more than the last time you bought tires. Big O quoted me $90+ for the Sumitomo 200 and said they would racers discount them for me down to $88 bucks per tire but I understand from the people who raced on them, they are not that great of a tire.
I'll run out the pile we have and will most likely have plenty brand new ones (Thanks Monkey Business for buying us the pile of em) until we are done with the mini's but the cars being built and cars needing new shoes will not find a 601 type tire without dropping the tread wear thing possibly omitting it all together.
Mini's start your computers! Find a tire you think may work and post it so we can get crackin with some info.
100 dollar cap???...... I got my excuse... I got em on SALE!!!!
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ministock05
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Posted: Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 04:00 AM |
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This tire comes in all the sizes except 13.... looks good
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=AVS+ES100&vehicleSearch=false&partnum=06HR5ES100&fromCompare1=yes&place=43
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wingless_warrior
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Posted: Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 04:25 AM |
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Nick, that is a great looking "280" treadwear rated tire. I would try it, but by the rules in play.... Not even close..... But yeah $100 cap, these tires are $92.00 bucks per tire and I'm surer you could get them on a deal somewhere.
The only reason I push the Goodyear Short Trackes is it would get the class one step closer to an outlaw class and then we could just go Pro4 Sorry Adam, I had to do it.....
I would like the UTQG rating (tread wear) to just go away and let the owner of the car decide what tires to buy if we are talking "DOT" tires with a price cap or claimer. If we all run the same tire, I would have to say the Short Tracks.
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MerkurMan
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Posted: Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 04:55 AM |
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With the pricing we are paying for the tires, I am not sure why we don't go to the Goodyear Short Track Special. I mean, whether I ran the Sumitomo or the Generals, the pricing on the tire is practically the same as the Short Track Specials. Like was said, that would then put our Mini Stock class on the same rims and tires as the Outlaw Compacts and other Mini Stock classes in other areas (Washington, Idaho, California) and might allow for some cross track racing with other places.
I also feel that having (1) tire for everyone is the way to go to make everyone on the same playing field.
Here is a question for everyone....I was told that the tires from the Top 3 were sent to be tested for tire softener-Right? Well, what were they exactly testing? If everyone was running different tires, and every tire has only a Treadwear Rating (i.e.380) that is a made up number for tread wear then how could anyone know what the durometer of the tire should be? There would have been no way to know if someone has been softening their tires because there is no baseline to know what each tire should have tested at.
If we all were required to run the same tire, then a baseline would be known for what the tires check out at from the factory and a simple durometer check of every tire on every car randomly throughout the season would tell us if the tires are being softened..right?
I talked to the Outlaw guys and they said they could run a set of tires all year (6) because the inside ones don't wear out. It would mean that us guys running 15 and 14 in rims would need to switch to 13's, but think the sacrifice is worth it to get us all on the same tire. I have mounted the 13" rims on my car and they fit. I have heard the rumor that the reason some people didnt want to go to 13 is because people had aftermarket larger brakes so the 13" wouldnt fit.
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wingless_warrior
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Posted: Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 04:58 AM |
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Rooky1 wrote: If we run DOT tires or any other tire I think it should be illegal to shave them.
I agree with that also, it cost money to do it and the biggest concern I have read so far is the cost...
You can still get a Nankang NS-2 or the Nankang EX 500. They just have different rarings. The 500 looks to be a 601 with a different wear #. About $350 a set of four. I believe they are 320's.
I'll shut up for now about it, I just think it is a simple fix and could be done as a low cost no brainer and give options to the persons buying them.
Peace out!
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MerkurMan
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Posted: Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 05:00 AM |
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LOL..I don't think you'll be silent for long...
LOL
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Gruntman
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Posted: Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 05:56 AM |
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When the mini stocks chose the Nankang the treadwear wasn't even a consideration. We wanted everyone on the same tire. All the tire shops in town were invited to a meeting and Chris from Big O was the only one to show up. He showed us the Nankang, told us he would sell them for $55.00 a piece. We put it to a vote and accepted it as the tire we would run. We presented it to the Fair board and they agreed. When the rule book was written the next year they included the treadwear.
The tire rule has worked very well and tires have not been an issue since that meeting. So why not do it again? Have Chris find a decent performance tire at a reasonable price, give everyone a chance to voice an opinion, present it to Adam, see if he'll make it a rule. Everyone can run their Nankangs till they wear out then we'll all be on the same tire again.
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xingman
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Posted: Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 06:15 AM |
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Jason,
Durometer readings didn't have anything to do with them being tested. We could have done that at the track. The tires were tested for foreign chemicals not consistent with the chemical compound in tires which would be an indication of soaking the tires.
Rick
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MerkurMan
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Posted: Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 06:22 AM |
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| oh, ok, Cool-Thanks for the clarification on that.
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ReverendDave
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Posted: Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 06:52 AM |
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Gruntman wrote: present it to Adam, see if he'll make it a rule. Everyone can run their Nankangs till they wear out then we'll all be on the same tire again.
GREAT IDEA .....
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MerkurMan
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Posted: Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 06:57 AM |
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That's funny right there Rev!
I think there has been lots of ideas, from the sounds of it, everyone wants it changed, I think everyone is in agreement-
it is just a matter of all of us waiting with baited breath to find out what the "DECISION 08'" will be
LOL
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ReverendDave
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Posted: Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 07:02 AM |
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Gruntman wrote: Fair board ..... When the rule book was written the next year they included the treadwear.
Now it all makes sence . 
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MerkurMan
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Posted: Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 07:07 AM |
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your in rare form tonight Rev..
The fair came to town and wrote our race rules...
DE DE DEEDLE DEE DEEE (clown song)
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ReverendDave
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Posted: Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 07:08 AM |
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| OK IM DONE ....hopfully Adam gets the big pitcher and sees that there is a problem here . ill go back to my shop and shut up . ....PEACE OUT
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DJR#22
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Posted: Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 09:06 AM |
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| If anyone has seen the tires they run at south sound speedway, they're kinda interesting. Radials re-capped with a slick, made by Nu-Tread in Tacoma. They're a little better than a regular dot and last forever (unless you get em so hot the cap separates...), and were about $60 two years ago. Their minis run 13s and 14s, 7" width, not sure what kinda stagger is available though.
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xingman
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Posted: Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 02:16 PM |
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| I wouldn't say that everyone is in agreement. There were a few at the meeting that felt it should stay the way it is and aren't on this board. If I remember right, their feeling was that eventually the Nankang 380 treadwear tires will wear out and those that have them will have to go to a higher treadwear or the Sumitomo (sp?) just like everyone else's options under the current rule. They didn't like the idea of the short track racers either because that forces everybody to by a whole new set of tires.
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racer37
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Posted: Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 03:16 PM |
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My choice would be to run the Goodyears but then I would still have all my current tires on hand. I see that some people think that by going to the Goodyears that they are only 13" but if you look at the Goodyear site they also come in 15" so the only size left out would be 14"s. I've looked at the SUDS4 rules and they seem to have a good set of rules to make things equal between the different cars they run, Mini's, Pro-4, Outlaws, Mod 4 etc. Maybe we could work something like their tire rule-
Tires and wheels
Any 8 inch tire is allowed.
***Dot tires with a treadwear of 100 or higher, or a retread of 56 durometer reading or more at end of race, may receive a 100 lbs weight break.***
Any steel racing wheel allowed.
Beadlocks on right rear only
Doing something like that would let people choose to get what tire they want and wouldn't make anyones tires obsolete.
Here's the link to the full set of rules:
http://www.4m.net/showthread.php?t=39685&highlight=SUDS4
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PINTO MAN
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Posted: Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 04:00 PM |
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| I tried to get DCS to use a company put of Tacoma, Washington called NuTread. They're pretty good tire for around $80 a tire. They are a slick but a re-cap slick. All tires are the same circumference because they change the sidewall size to ensure that you don't use 14" on the right and 13" on the left. They are available in 13-15. Especially if they have 15" donor tires to use. Ask the South Sound guys. They aren't a bad tire. Everyone on the same tire. Low cost. Plus a track tire would offer an opportunity for a tire fund for the end of the year. Just some ideas I had years ago. Maybe now is the time for them.
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slowoneone
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Posted: Thursday Oct 9th, 2008 04:49 PM |
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| i would agree, i would like to see everyone on the same tire at a cost as low as possible. as far as what tire that is, i dont know. as far as keeping the cost down in this class we all know that is a joke. at least an equal tire is sorta leveling the playing field.
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wingless_warrior
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Posted: Friday Oct 10th, 2008 03:33 AM |
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MerkurMan wrote: LOL..I don't think you'll be silent for long...
LOL
Biting tongue....
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pumpman 1
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Posted: Friday Oct 10th, 2008 04:07 AM |
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| I have some tire ideas I'm affaid if I say anything they will take my points for the 09 season before it starts
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hornet17
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Posted: Friday Oct 10th, 2008 04:09 AM |
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pumpman 1 wrote: I have some tire ideas I'm affaid if I say anything they will take my points for the 09 season before it starts
and he knows his tires,even if there wrong
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Gruntman
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Posted: Friday Oct 10th, 2008 06:11 AM |
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Hey Rev. help me out. I'm having trouble spelling "Sarcasm."
I can't find the old rule book but before the Nankang I believe it was "any DOT tire". Buy it anywhere, from anyone, for any amount. It doesn't take any stretch of the imagination to know what will happen if someone shows up with $800.00 street tires that some how made it under the price cap and are within the treadwear rating. I dont care if we run on white wall mud and snows as long as everyone is on the same tires. Just my opinion.
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ReverendDave
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Posted: Friday Oct 10th, 2008 06:49 AM |
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Gruntman wrote: Hey Rev. help me out. I'm having trouble spelling "Sarcasm."
I can't find the old rule book but before the Nankang I believe it was "any DOT tire". Buy it anywhere, from anyone, for any amount. It doesn't take any stretch of the imagination to know what will happen if someone shows up with $800.00 street tires that some how made it under the price cap and are within the treadwear rating. I dont care if we run on white wall mud and snows as long as everyone is on the same tires. Just my opinion.
Hope you didnt think i was being sarcastic to you ...You give me the exact aswer that no one has ever been able to give ....WHERE AND HOW this 380 tread wear could have got into our rules ....And with what you shaired with us told the story very well ....and here is how i see it went ....A bunch of racers took time to come up with a tire ...A tire shop took time to supply the tire ......AND THEN....a PERSON ....that knows nothing about racing that sits in a office behind a desk...just put to much info about the tire that was voted on ...and now years later we are taken it in the shorts for that one little mishap . The reason im so humped over this is because i was told last year from big o tire that the 380 tire was no longer out the to buy ....So i bought 4 tires from big o that BIG O said was all thay could get ...witch were 320 tread wear .... then the race season starts up and adam gos over to big o and chris tells adam that yes we can still get the 380 .....So now i need 4 more tires ...So i buy 4 more tires used from the hippie so my car will be legal for race day ....So now that im building a new car for jeff i send jeff over to get these tires that big o says are out there to buy .....CHRIS looks for them every where and tells us there no longer avalabale .....NOW DO YOU SEE WHY IM SARCASTIC ....all i want to do is buy a dam tire that i can run next year.  I dont care what it cost ....I dont care if its a slick or treaded ......All i want ....is to make a phone call or walk in to a store ....lay down my money and walk out with my tire .....PLEASE Last edited on Friday Oct 10th, 2008 07:28 AM by ReverendDave
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Gruntman
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Posted: Friday Oct 10th, 2008 08:16 AM |
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It's all good Rev. Now that I know where you're coming from we're pretty much on the same page. I just don't want to see a rule that allows a variety of different tires. One tire. everybody's on it. If that 320 is readily available and comes in all three sizes, what's wrong with it. We can go to Adam and say we want that tire. Not one that looks like it, smells like it, tastes like it ...... Just that tire.
I'll be out of town till Sun. this thread should be to page 12 by then......
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MINI STOCK 34
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Posted: Friday Oct 10th, 2008 06:50 PM |
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| Think about this for a minute.......... No other track rules I have seen mention anything about any treadwear rating.......... Your best option, and I feel this is what it will be: Any treaded DOT tire, 205/50 or 60 series, with a "claim" of $70 allowed. Short Track Specials are not the way to go, and nether is any of the other stuff mentioned. If this is to be the rule, anyone will be able to go to any tire store and get their tires without a problem. If I were writing the rule, this is what you'd have and I would enforce it all the way...... I don't really care if its shaved, siped, or how much of the tread is left on it either. Basically, if you think it helps to do those things, then do it!! Racing is all about finding the edge and being creative and taking away simple things like that takes away from that. If you want to run an all stock type division, build a Hornet. just my thoughts...... And for the record, I never did any of those things to my tires either. Last edited on Friday Oct 10th, 2008 06:52 PM by MINI STOCK 34
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ReverendDave
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Posted: Friday Oct 10th, 2008 10:35 PM |
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MINI STOCK 34 wrote: Think about this for a minute.......... No other track rules I have seen mention anything about any treadwear rating.......... Your best option, and I feel this is what it will be: Any treaded DOT tire, 205/50 or 60 series, with a "claim" of $70 allowed. Short Track Specials are not the way to go, and nether is any of the other stuff mentioned. If this is to be the rule, anyone will be able to go to any tire store and get their tires without a problem. If I were writing the rule, this is what you'd have and I would enforce it all the way...... I don't really care if its shaved, siped, or how much of the tread is left on it either. Basically, if you think it helps to do those things, then do it!! Racing is all about finding the edge and being creative and taking away simple things like that takes away from that. If you want to run an all stock type division, build a Hornet. just my thoughts...... And for the record, I never did any of those things to my tires either.
Thank you jim ....And no one will have to buy more rims ....And every one can run out the tires thay have now . and if this dont work out next season then lets try somthing new again ....At least you guys are in agreement that its time to do somthing about this ....And what ever way it swings ....We are trying to get it worked out so every car that gos onto that track will go out on good tires that we can afford and find .......HAVE A NICE DAY .....
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MINI STOCK 34
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Posted: Friday Oct 10th, 2008 10:43 PM |
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| Its just the best way all around to this dilema. I know of several drivers that will park their cars if they have to buy all new tires. I know I do not have a car in this class anymore, but after 11 years of being in it I feel what I am trying to say should hold some water. You all need to think of the health of the class and what's best for ERERYONE and not what will work just for your own team. Jim
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wingless_warrior
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Posted: Saturday Oct 11th, 2008 12:20 AM |
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Jim, I agree, car count is awesome and nobody wants to park their cars. I would love to see A and B mains next year with a thirty plus car division.
The $70 is low for a claimer. The last 601's I got were $99 per tire and there are great DOT's for $85-$100 per tire and I'm sure $70 if you search the worlod over. Big O was $88 (discounted) per tire for the Sumitomo's. I don't care who you are, you're going to need tires at some point and this rule fixin will allow all of us to make a good decision for 09 and beyond.
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MINI STOCK 34
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| Location: | WINSTON |
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Posted: Saturday Oct 11th, 2008 05:29 PM |
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| Trust me, I've done the research. been on Tirerack.com and have seen numerous tires that would work very well for under the 70$ claim. The only reason I say that amount is to stop certain morons from spending the almost, to over $200 for tires like the Hooiser R6. You can spend over $70, its not a price cap. Its a claim. Just in place to prohibit over spending on tires. I doubt any tire would get claimed, but a claim in place, would stop the use of the R6 which IMO is way better (speed wise) than the Short track Goodyears. You all need to be careful here to keep this class in its good health. I see too many in this group that only seem to care about themselves concerning this. I'm sure Adam will make the decision he feels is best on this issue. When looking at tires for this group you need to look at these items first..... Cost, availiability, functionality, and that its availiable in many sizes to accomodate all. Who knows, you may find one that is better than th EX-601 has been.
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YOU CAN LEARN ALOT FROM A CHEATER
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wingless_warrior
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 01:21 AM |
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There are five different tires in the size we run at tirerack.com and that includes the Hoosier R6. $70.00 plus shipping $15-$20 depending on size = $85 to $90 per tire.... I'll just buy mine off your car Rev for $70 when you roll in with a new set....lol The 71 has $396 worth on it and the day it rolled up with them, I would not have let them be claimed for $280, I would have no problem with it now they have seven races on them.
I for one am not just thinking of myself but am being realistic about the cost of tires if you went to order them or buy them locally. I totally agree you can be out spent in any form of racing and there does need to be a limit. How about no more than $1500.00 in the head and a $400.00 claim? It goes forever that way. Don't get me wrong, I believe there should be a limit but just a realistic limit on how much to spend. We are still newbies, but pay to play just like everyone else and all opinions need to be heard.
Anybody know of a local shop willing to sell tires just over cost and get some great advertising? I think the $70 would be relevant then.
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Saily Race Engines Riddle, Or
vdlfuelsystems.com Theodore, AL
Napa Auto Parts Canyonville, Or
Monkey Buisness Canyonville, Or
fastundercar.com Portland, Or
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MINI STOCK 34
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Posted: Sunday Oct 12th, 2008 05:27 PM |
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| Unless some moron is spending 150$ plus per tire there is a very slim chance ANY tires would be claimed, (if this is how it goes that is). If the claim was set too high, it would not be worth it. if going 85 down I-5 only cost you a $5 ticket, you wouldn't care so much, but since it would cost hundreds of dollars, higher insurance, maybe a wreckless driving ticket, you think about it before ya do it!! That is why, if I were making the rule, it would in fact be $70.
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YOU CAN LEARN ALOT FROM A CHEATER
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mini stock 28
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Posted: Saturday Oct 18th, 2008 06:00 AM |
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o.k. heres my two cents i agree with alot of whats said but i also disagree lets all work with chris at big "o" to see what he can come up with then we all need to be on that tire there should also be some kind of price cap/claim so as not to let the people with money out spend somebody else thats not the idea of this class if you want to spend lots of money move up a classwe do not and i repeat do not need to be on any type of slick if you want to run slicks move up a classthere also should not be any type of altering the tire allowed ie shaving/angle shaving/siping/soaking got my pointim sure theres plenty more to be said but that all for now when i think of any thing else i'll voice my opinion again, not that any ones gonna listen!!!!!!
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78Pinto
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Posted: Saturday Oct 18th, 2008 07:10 PM |
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The only way you are going to stop people outspending is to have a spec tire. It could be a DOT tire, not a slick, just mandate a tire to be used. Having a claim is no good because it won't happen.
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ministock05
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| Location: | SUTHERLIN |
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Posted: Sunday Oct 19th, 2008 03:55 AM |
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