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MerkurMan
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Posted: Sunday Oct 19th, 2008 05:35 AM |
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There are basically two thoughts-DOT tire, reduce or eliminate the the treadwear rating-this allows everyone to run what they are currently running, and as new tires are needed/new cars are built, it allows people to have options on what they can get/find for their car.
Second thought is to go to something like a Short Track Special. If that is the "Spec Tire", then everyone is on the same tire and everyone is required to buy the same tire and it also puts DCS on same tire as other mini stock classes.
If a Spec tire is picked that is one of the tires that people run, then it means some people are required to change/buy new tires and others won't.
Either allow ALL current tires people are currently running and eliminate/lower the treadwear or you will be making ALL current tires illegal and going to a completely different spec tire
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78Pinto
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Posted: Sunday Oct 19th, 2008 07:04 PM |
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That is the point where the class is at so it is going to affect everyone one way or another. "Spec tire" doesn't have to mean "racing tire". It is the tire "specified" for the class. My point I was trying to make with my first post is that if it is left as "any DOT tire is legal"with a claim, some people are going to spend the money to buy the super sticky tires. That isn't this class. Let's make it a fun competitive class where anyone can win on a given night. Mandating a "spec tire" that is inexpensive will go a long ways to help that. Make it a tire hard enough to last an entire season. Grandfather the Nankangs that are left and the people that ran the Sumitomos or the Generals for this year. Or sell them to someone that needs street tires. I'm putting the first set of Nankangs on my son's car. There is enough car repairing and rebuilding that goes on during the year to add the cost of buying multiple sets of tires.
Leaving it wide open to ANY DOT tire allows the use of the Toyos you ran for the invitational. How many people are going to pony up $780 for a set? If there is a claim on tires, who will actually do it? If the "spec tire" becomes the Short Track special then the cost becomes the same including wheels but then your point about the tires being the same as other series becomes valid and will work once a year when the Outlaws come to town.
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wingless_warrior
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Posted: Sunday Oct 19th, 2008 09:45 PM |
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78Pinto wrote: That isn't this class. Let's make it a fun competitive class where anyone can win on a given night.
Most cars (probably 80%) run the same tire right now, so I don't believe we would see a new winner every race by all of the cars being on the same tire. If Rob steps out of the class, I think you are going to see a couple of different winners. No knock on Rob, he has it dialed in there. Hopefully we all can bag a "W" in 09 on the same tire.
It will be nice to see what the rule is going to be and whatever the rule, we'll all deal with it or not. I just don't get the cost being that big of deal, when it is the least amount spent on the mini's.... I do agree with the class being on the same page, but if we have to run a DOT tire, I would like to choose my own under the rule put in place, or we might as well use the Sxxxx Txxxx Sxxxxxx
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MerkurMan
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Posted: Sunday Oct 19th, 2008 09:48 PM |
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I agree-I think most everyone does-pick a "spec tire" whether that is the Goodyear Short Track Specials, whether it is some tire that Adam/DCS is able to get from Chris at Big O, etc. In talking to the Outlaw guys, they would like to come down more. There is also people that would like to race down at Anderson, the race out at Stateline, up at South Sound, etc. that all run those, so it makes a little sense.
If we go to a "spec tire" that is comparable to what everyone is running-i.e. Sumitomo, General, or some other tire, then we need to have it open this year for people who currently have other brands/makes of tires to make them able to run.
The only reason that I ran the Toyo's is that they were FREE from someone that was going to throw them away. There is no way that I would spend that kind of money on tires-especially given the fact of tires getting torn up, flattened, etc in crashes, bumps, etc. I do think though that it is kind of funny that people complain about tires costing more than 400.00 but people spend 2, 3, 4 K on a head, spend hundreds on MSD ignitions, and all kinds of other things that go into the cars. Some people want to say that this is an entry level class, but there is a bit of a difference between the Mini Stocks and the Hornets and the Mini Stock class at DCS is not completely entry level.
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78Pinto
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Posted: Monday Oct 20th, 2008 12:25 AM |
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I should have qualified my anyone winning statement. The last time I spoke with Rob, he was thinking about leaving the class but that was a couple of months ago. With him and Jimmy gone the class becomes open.
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Oh-Oh
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Posted: Monday Oct 20th, 2008 03:03 AM |
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MerkurMan wrote: Some people want to say that this is an entry level class, but there is a bit of a difference between the Mini Stocks and the Hornets and the Mini Stock class at DCS is not completely entry level.
There is something in that statement that is ringing a bell in my head, you're getting real close to zeroing in on what went so wrong with our Compact Class.
Personally, I feel the Mini stocks/Compacts truly are THE best entry level classes in existance, unless your dad buys you a "store bought" race car when you're in second grade. I don't consider the Bandeleros entry level when you want to enter the sport at an age exceeding fourteen. Rules don't allow it, and in INEX racing the rules seem to be enforcable.
What happens next is you love racing Compacts and then want to win a race someday. But your competition has perfected their idea of entry level to something unbeatable, what with seventeen years in the class. When that's allowed, it's hardly entry level anymore. They have established clout and are in good standing with the good old boy management system and run by their own rules, which is to do what you have to do to win all the races and championships.
I can't compete with that, can you? The Compact Class here got destroyed in the last three races of the season, it's all about rules and lack of them and the good old boys being allowed to thumb their noses at the tech man and race cars that have been disqualified anyway. I have no intention of ever taking my car to Raceway Park again, I will run it in the Outlaw race at the Idaho 200 next year and call it a season. But- to run there it has to be an Outlaw car, right? Not entry level there, huh? They are two different classes.
My advice to you guys is to figure out whether you want to get the most out of your Mini stocks, or do want them compared to Hornets (slap in the face, in my opinion). You need the best tires you can get on your Minis. The minis are real race cars, I would take the class seriously enough to run real tires on them.
We ran Hoosiers here last season, everybody loved them.
I don't think I have to tell you, but remember
A) It's all about the tires
B) then it's all about getting the most out of them, called "setup"
C) Figure out how to drive the car.
D) Have as much horsepower as the competitors. This is important in this class!
E) Become the class champion. You did it! You are a real racer now.
F) Move up to a V8 class. Limited Sportsman is the best choice at my track. Let the rookies in the Minis stock class have their chance to excel.
Last edited on Monday Oct 20th, 2008 03:13 AM by Oh-Oh
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78Pinto
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Posted: Monday Oct 20th, 2008 04:09 AM |
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MerkurMan wrote: I do think though that it is kind of funny that people complain about tires costing more than 400.00 but people spend 2, 3, 4 K on a head, spend hundreds on MSD ignitions, and all kinds of other things that go into the cars.
LOL That's funny right there
LOL
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wingless_warrior
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Posted: Monday Oct 20th, 2008 05:06 AM |
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We got dominated when we first came out to the "entry level" class.
It must have cost us $6500.00 to get the motor where it would run fairly well.
OK that was funny! It was rings and bearings and built by Dr. Saily
Tires, sure we all use them. Not a big deal to figure out. Whatever the rule, I just don't want to be forced to buy them from any one place. The price is better when you have options of where you get "the same" tire. I am a blood hound when it comes to finding the best deal just like most of you.
There was a point made earlier about entry level . It is not an entry level class as is and foolish to think it is.
Last edited on Monday Oct 20th, 2008 05:08 AM by wingless_warrior
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Oh-Oh
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Posted: Monday Oct 20th, 2008 05:40 AM |
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Good point, Scott. Your track is a little different. Your rules take Mini Stock to a level I'd certainly compare with the Outlaw Compacts. Very unusual. When I first looked at your rules, must have been three years ago, after Joe's intake manifold design hit the fan, I was shocked. The rules encourage some real go fast. Our rules encourage real cheap, as in bone stock other than the camshaft (in terms of duration but not lift) and at most, a variable timing gear.
Big difference!!!
Thus you really do need the best tires possible.
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Jeff D.
good boys play nice and easy with their toys.
BAD BOYS PLAY ROUGH AND TEAR $#IT UP!
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wingless_warrior
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Posted: Monday Oct 20th, 2008 06:03 AM |
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Jeff, can you send me an adjustable timing gear, that is the only thing I am lacking. The current system I use is kinda hokie....
Darn it! Esslinger/Racer Walsh don't make 1974 Opel parts.... Neither does anyone else for that matter.
If the cars came with the performance these mini's have, they would have sold millions more of them.
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ReverendDave
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Posted: Monday Oct 20th, 2008 04:11 PM |
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I have a ... B F H ... ill loan ya any time you want to adjust the cam on that german tin can .  Last edited on Monday Oct 20th, 2008 04:12 PM by ReverendDave
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wingless_warrior
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Posted: Monday Oct 20th, 2008 05:19 PM |
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Thanks Rev. you're always willing to help out.... How about, we try it on your car first and if it works out, we can use it on mine.....
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Saily Race Engines Riddle, Or
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Napa Auto Parts Canyonville, Or
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wingless_warrior
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Posted: Tuesday Oct 21st, 2008 01:40 AM |
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Here is a killer deal on some new 205 60 15 Nankang EX-601's on Ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2-New-Tires-Nankang-205-60-R15_W0QQitemZ220270738275QQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p4506.m20.l1116
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MINI STOCK 34
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Posted: Tuesday Oct 21st, 2008 04:53 AM |
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| Beating a dead horse still makes it dead!!! Obviously the rule will be what Track Management makes it, and when they make it. I think everything that can be said about TIRES here has been said.... Mini stocks are not entry level at any track, they are a feeder division based on economy. Race tires are not economy thus do not belong there...
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ReverendDave
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Posted: Tuesday Oct 21st, 2008 07:45 AM |
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wingless_warrior wrote: Thanks Rev. you're always willing to help out.... How about, we try it on your car first and if it works out, we can use it on mine.....
LOL.....Im using that BFH on our car alot latly ....All you guys bent every part on the ol girl ...lol  Man i realy had not looked at the body much in the last few races ...and now that im cleaning and beating her back into spring race form ive got alot of bondo to put on 
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wingless_warrior
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Posted: Tuesday Oct 21st, 2008 12:58 PM |
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MINI STOCK 34 wrote: Beating a dead horse still makes it dead!!!
Jim, it sure is fun overKilling it though....
Race tires are an economic advantage.... They are cheaper than a good DOT.
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MINI STOCK 34
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Posted: Friday Oct 24th, 2008 04:04 AM |
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| They don't last near as many shows as a DOT so i do not see an economic benefit... I ran a set of Nankangs for 2 complete seasons and Justin got another season out of them and they were still usabale.... Thats economic, Like to see ANY race tire do that, and perform just as good the last race as they did the first... Not gonna happen folks!!
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hornet17
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Posted: Friday Oct 24th, 2008 04:39 AM |
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ReverendDave wrote: wingless_warrior wrote: Thanks Rev. you're always willing to help out.... How about, we try it on your car first and if it works out, we can use it on mine.....
LOL.....Im using that BFH on our car alot latly ....All you guys bent every part on the ol girl ...lol Man i realy had not looked at the body much in the last few races ...and now that im cleaning and beating her back into spring race form ive got alot of bondo to put on
atleat your able to beat yours back,i need to replace my panels
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mini stock 28
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Posted: Saturday Oct 25th, 2008 06:45 AM |
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| o.k here we go again this class does not belong on any type of slick, with the economy the way it is why would i want ot go out and buy 8 or 10 slicks, when if we stay with the dot tire i could go out and buy 1 or 2 now then maybe a couple later simple economics people, think about it?????
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Oh-Oh
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Posted: Saturday Oct 25th, 2008 04:18 PM |
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For years we were getting used "take-offs" from John Berget Racing Tires out of Wisconsin. He would ship us pallets of them. They were Goodyear Eagle 10" slicks. To get in on the deal you had to be in the right "clique" and they were $40 each. Myself, I just had John UPS them to me two at a time, they came out close to $50 each.
When the track decided to have us voluntarily try the Eagle grooved tire, they ordered me four of them, they ended up costing $80 each. I never got a chance to wear them out, after four races on them they're no where near used up yet.
Are these reasonably priced for your consideration?
I don't know the cost of the Hoosiers the track sold last year, the several Compact racers I'll still talk to really like them, more than any other tire they've tried. They hope the tire rule will be the same next year, if there is a Compact Class. Sounds like most want to race in Spokane a couple times and call it good.
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Jeff D.
good boys play nice and easy with their toys.
BAD BOYS PLAY ROUGH AND TEAR $#IT UP!
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