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oreimca15
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Posted: Thursday Jan 3rd, 2008 08:19 PM |
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Adam,
I'm not really sure how to present this but I hope it is not viewed as a negitive post. It is being posted to show you, the fans and other premier division drivers, the feelings of the "majority" of modified drivers.
Of the 24 drivers that received points in the modified division as listed on the DCS website for last year, 15 will not compete in the premier division this year. Of the remaining 9 drivers, I believe 7 will not race in the premier division either but this is my opinion only. This information has been collected through phone calls, personal conversations or in some cases second hand comments from reliable sources.
Depending on rule changes (tires), purse and quantity of races, I believe most of last years car would run in modified only shows. Of the 24 drivers, there are 2 cars that I know of for sale and one driver that has supposedly retired but I heard that story before. I'm not going to name names in this post but would gladly share with you those names if you are interested, you have my number.
I have also been asked by Mr. McJunkin that when you have the time to please call him @ (541)757-1223, 1-800-585-5737 or at home at (541)917-3060.
With no drivers/class meetings scheduled, this is our only avenue to express our thoughts as a group. I was not asked to do this but feel we need to address these issues before the class no longer exsists. I truely hope we can get things ironed out before the season is lost.
Thank you,
Mike Simmons
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voodoo1
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Posted: Thursday Jan 3rd, 2008 08:35 PM |
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| Good post! We haven't decided what we're going to do yet ourselves. Not to interested in having to run the 10 in tires at Roseburg then have to have another set for somewhere else, not very cost effective. I know we are new to the full size car class at Roseburg, but I see alot of animosity going on with running 2 classes together. I just don't see it happening. I would think you have the classes seperate or drop one of them. just my 2 cents. Mike and Colin #11 Modified
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oreimca15
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Posted: Thursday Jan 3rd, 2008 08:46 PM |
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Thanks for the comments Voodoo,
I had you listed as one of the (7) as I had not personally talked to you but had talked to another driver close by in your area.
As long as this post stays professional and not personal, I hope it gets people to talking. I would really like to hear comments from the late models, Wade, Riley, Dale........any of you guys out there?
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66racin
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Posted: Friday Jan 4th, 2008 02:23 AM |
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I have the same thoughts as Mike with the Grove running G60's having to buy
10 in tires would be a big cost i cant see in the budget thats why i was asking
about the mod only races Adam had previously posted about on Nov 1st "
Modifieds will see no changes, the only pending decision is whether some "modified
only" events will be run and how many
http://www.nwracechat.com/reply.php?topic_id=7493&post_id=41706"e=1
Last edited on Friday Jan 4th, 2008 02:38 AM by 66racin
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wingless_warrior
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Posted: Friday Jan 4th, 2008 06:38 AM |
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As a fan, I would have to say the Modified field is my favorite to watch and we show up with our group in the stands or pits every time the Modifieds run at DCS.
As a Dad to a new driver, we would hate to see the Modified class leave DCS because that is the direction we have been headed after we get some seasons in the mini's.
We hope that the racer doesn't sell his car or retire because my son hopes to be hot lapping it toward the end of the 2008 season.
oreimca15, this is a great post. As fans we hope it all gets worked out so all 24 cars run at DCS in 2008.
Scott
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Posted: Friday Jan 4th, 2008 06:51 AM |
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| I keep hearing of less and less late models that are going to run here because of lack of money being paid, so this topic may be a mute point.
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oreimca15
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Posted: Friday Jan 4th, 2008 03:41 PM |
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I didn't know that the late model drivers were unhappy with the purse but I did hear one driver say he wouldn't run with the modifieds but would run the open "late model only" shows if they have some.
Other then that, I would like to hear from the late model drivers about their thoughts on running with modifieds.
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mod44
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Posted: Tuesday Jan 8th, 2008 05:07 AM |
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Mike, great post. We do not plan on running our 2 modifieds at DCS this year if we have to run with the late models. I'm sure you will not see the #22 car either. Well, to me, it sounds like making a premiere class is going to hurt both car counts. Why mess with the Modifieds, which HAD one of the best car counts.
NO CARS-NO FANS-NO MONEY. THINK ABOUT IT ADAM!
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voodoo1
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Posted: Tuesday Jan 8th, 2008 05:59 AM |
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Its amazing it has taken this long for people to say anything. We (racers) have known about this for months, but have kept quiet about it, meanwhile we are more concerned about having a swap meet. Look at the views on this subject but only 7 replies. The only reason we haven't said anything is because we're new here, but the people with many more years racing have not voiced their opinions as much as they need to. I hope that the car count isn't going to be low, that would really not be good. Almost the middle of January hope something gets done. I would hope Adam will say something soon for this and the swap meet.
Mike and Colin #11 Mod.
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oreimca15
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Posted: Tuesday Jan 8th, 2008 07:25 AM |
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In my opinion, the reason there was not more spoken on here earlier was because the modified drivers were trying to get Adam to change his mind in their own way. Last year when unpopular decisions were made by Adam, the comments on this board got out of line and in some ways personal. My approach was to not post it on here but to try and deal with him one on one. When that didn't work, I started a thread as to why I thought that combining the LM's and modifieds would not work as proposed, based on performance issues.
I started this thread because it is still not too late to schedule the modifieds as a stand alone class. That being said, I still can't justify spending time and money this winter to get ready for 4-6 "modified only" races this season and those are not a sure thing the last I heard.
What started out as being e-mails and phone calls to my fellow drivers, to see what their plans were for next year has turned into something that has a life of it's own. It was never my attempt to start a "boycott" if you will but more and more, the drivers are telling me that " I'll do what the majority does". Funny thing, I was always told you could never get a group of drivers to agree and stand as a group, guess it only works when you're really not trying.
Every driver to a man, wants Adam to suceed but the modifieds refuse to be the sacrificial lambs for what appears to be a dwindling class of LM's.
Mike
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oreimca15
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Posted: Tuesday Jan 8th, 2008 07:38 AM |
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voodoo1 wrote: I hope that the car count isn't going to be low, that would really not be good. Almost the middle of January hope something gets done. I would hope Adam will say something soon for this and the swap meet.
Mike and Colin #11 Mod.
It's not going to be good either way. If we run with the LM's we are stuck there forever and I promise you, no modified will be winning without spending a ton of $$$$.
On the other hand, we could park our modifieds and run the risk of Adam taking the stance that he don't need us and we never have another "modified only" race.
If you have a proposal where the modifieds don't take it in the shorts, I'm all ears.
Mike
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66racin
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Posted: Tuesday Jan 8th, 2008 08:06 AM |
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i have been trying to sell my mod and get a street stock as i dont think i will run
competitively with the late models, with that said if i dont get a street sock
i will just race at cottage grove this year in the mod good luck to everyone and i
hope your season turns out for you and the Mod class @ DCS this year
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wade18koens
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Posted: Tuesday Jan 8th, 2008 07:05 PM |
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This is obviously a sensitive subject.
On one hand you have the modified class basically being told that they will be running with latemodels or nothing.
On the other hand you have latemodels basically being told they will be running with the modifieds or nothing.
So is there really a dilemma here? If you want to race locally, then you race in the class that your local track (promoter) offers for your car. It's ok to not agree with the choice but when the green drops we all want to race.
First and foremost I would like to say that EACH class at DCS needs a 'President'. That is one person that is the spokesperson for their entire class. One that drivers/owners can go to with questions, ideas and complaints. That person would be the contact person to Adam. This 'President' could have many duties that range from collecting responses from a question that Adam needs answered to getting that class a particular rule changed or addressed. The 'President' could also be the one that gets a head count of cars for each class at the beginning of the year. The Presidents of each class would meet periodically with Adam and voice opinions from their respected class. Who knows, maybe there are 20 latemodels out there willing to commit to running each race at DCS if only hamburgers were free...? We need a person willing to spend some time collecting this information and passing it on the Adam and THEN he can make a more informed choices. Its all about communicating here people. I will say that Adam is approachable but some may feel that it may not be worth the hassle of throwing out this or that idea. However, if you throw your idea out to the leader of your class then, through brainstorming, something may just get done the way the entire class wants it!
Adam's job would be to get the President of each class all the information possible for contacting current and potential drivers/owners at the beginning of the year. The President would then make contact via email, mail, phone or in person, introduce themselves as the class President and start collecting information and requests to pass along to Adam.
Instead of consolidating the classes maybe more effort should be put forth to make BOTH classes prosper separately! Ie: consistent tech, better payout, contingency sponsors, more owner/driver friendly tire rule, etc...
Lastly, I would like to point out that the amount of cars in each class seems low. Not just the Latemodels or Modifieds but ALL classes. Maybe there should be some combining of other classes too huh?
May 19th, 2007:
Latemodels- 12
Sprints - 7
Super Stocks- 11
Street Stocks - 10
June 2nd, 2007
Latemodels - 11
Mini Stocks - 13
Hornets - 7
July 6th, 2007
Latemodels - 8
Sprints - 6
Oldtimers - 10
Hornets - 10
Jcars - 7
On 9-29 Modifieds had 12.
On 9-22 Modifieds had 14.
I do not have the numbers on the modifieds for other races.
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Idaho7
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Posted: Tuesday Jan 8th, 2008 08:22 PM |
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There is a real problem that we are addressing and it will take a few years here at DCS to iron it all out. There are other divisions that need some help and we are working on building them or consolidating them.
DCS needs classes that are economically affordable to race for all. That means the drivers (cost of building) the fans (cost of tickets) the racetrack (cost to put on the track) All of these factors are being addressed while the changes are being made. I like the all of the classes that we have and wish we didn't have to make any adjustments, but we have too many high cost classes and not enough low cost classes. We are working to put together a program that allows anyone with any type of car to race it locally if they choose too. I am not in favor of just canceling a class of any type, even though that would be the easiest thing to do. Many have suggested that we are trying to faze out Latemodels or Modifieds. Thats simply not true although many tracks are doing just that. Many racers have cars that are not race able on a weekly level because the track does not offer a place for them. Why does the track not offer a place? It's very simple, drivers want more money than is available. Why is the money not available? Because the attendance levels are not what they once were. This is a problem that many tracks are working on. The attendance drop is being addressed by so many tracks that haven't changed anything from the good years to the bad years. This pretty much tells us that the only thing we are doing wrong is not adapting to the times fast enough.
We don't want to faze out either class but do need to make changes so the track doesn't loose money while it is working on rebuilding the fan base. DCS had a season of attendance that was average for the previous seasons, we saw some increases on some obvious nights and we need to build on those. Unfortunately there were no increases on nights of just good 'ol racin. That is something we would like to change, we want people to buy a ticket to watch some plain ole' racin. We need a good car count to event attempt to make this happen. 15 modifieds is a pretty good car count one of the highest of the track, but it is not 25. The latemodels are the same way. We know people will buy a ticket to a Northstate race, why? because there is 27 cars entered. By offering the cars as one division the opportunity for a 25-30 car field is there, and people will buy a ticket to see it. When people buy a ticket there is money available to PAY OUT> As we bring new people into the sport, they will be looking to move up and ultimately as they progress they will move through the ranks to the premier division. As the premier division builds in the following years, it could get to a point where we can split it up and have 25 of each to offer all of the new fans that we have spent the time gaining.
To bring people into the sport we need the entry level stuff, (hornets-vans) we need good intermediate divisions(street-super-mini) and we need one top tier division. DCS has 3 top tier divisions.
Questions to ask: If the ticket price is raised to accommodate the need for larger purses, do we loose fans because they don't want to pay more?
If we raise the purse $1000 more, does it bring in $1000 more in ticket sales?
IT'S simple economics,
Average expenses of operating a night at the speedway.
insurance 1200, ambulance 1000, staff 1000, advertising 1000, avg. 07purse 3500. TOTAL 6700 (doesn't include administrative expenses ie: Workman's comp, bookkeeping, or taxpayments)
Average income from a typically non-special race.
front gate 450x8(adult)= $3600, 89x6(senior/kid) $516, Back gate 2800, average nightly sponsor $1000. TOTAL 7916
revenue minus expense = pre admin profit on a race night.
7916-6700= $1216.00 ---- 1216.00 times 20 races is $24,320.00 Pretty close to the profit that the last 2 years the fairground reported.
What changes this? More fans buying tickets, but we need something that people want to see.
WE know they want to see crash shows, that is obvious. But we are all charged with trying to offer a Saturday night short track"racing" program that will sell tickets. It is also obvious that the one we had last year was not the right one and if we repeat the program we are destined to have the same result.
These are the things that I have to consider when putting this schedule together and I am aware that the decisions that I make affect each racer in a different way.
I have no vendetta against anyone or any class, only a mission to make DCS a fun place for racers and fans to spend time while also keeping the books in the black.
I understand that some may sit out because they don't like one thing or the other and that also is common from track to track. I wish it wasn't true, but it is.
I like Wades Idea of the class reps, if PRA was still functioning it would be a great avenue for those officers to organize. I'm sure it would be a great avenue for communication.
WE SiMply need to offer a race that people want to see! If we had the attendance of the old days all of this would be mute!
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jbrock15
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Posted: Tuesday Jan 8th, 2008 08:50 PM |
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| adam, when looking over previous years run by the fairgrounds, did the tv advertising pay for itself at the front gate? and do you think it would have if gate prices were more reasonable as they were last year. the five doller nights were to bring people in and get them to come back, but if that 5 bucks were advertised it ,do you think it would pay for the ads? i mean this only as a serious question.jim
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Idaho7
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Posted: Tuesday Jan 8th, 2008 09:20 PM |
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The $5 nights had attendance levels that were similar to the $8 nights. In other words it didn't increase the attendance. We did however see some different people in the grandstands but were missing the families of the classes that weren't racing on the $5 nights, so it was a wash. We advertised those events in the paper and on the radio and in mailers. TV advertising unless traded straight across is inaffective. The most affective advertising is word of mouth.
to answer your question. at $5 a head every $1000 in advertising spent needs to bring in an extra 200 ppl just to have the advertising break even. That is break even.
I've not seen a tv commercial bring 200ppl to any regular race event, special events are different however. They can be affective on those. Just anote, you can't buy much TV for $1000 and you have more than 85 channels to choose from as well as local, cable, dish ect...... to get coverage you need to buy it all.
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xingman
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Posted: Wednesday Jan 9th, 2008 01:48 AM |
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Can I nominate myself as the President for all of the classes?  Momma always told me I could be President some day.
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ReverendDave
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Posted: Wednesday Jan 9th, 2008 02:13 AM |
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| I think you guys hit the problem right on the head when you said ...TV...AND 85 CHANNELS...this is why attendance is down . why should billy bob go watch local racing and buy beer when he can sat in his lazy boy and drink beer from the fridge and watch world wide racing....just my opinion......i make a motion to elect rick as head of complaint department all in favor........
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Idaho7
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Posted: Wednesday Jan 9th, 2008 02:22 AM |
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| I agree dave that all the media today is part of the problem, but if our product is better and more fun we can prevail..... we just have to offer a better product then we have in the past!
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jbrock15
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Posted: Wednesday Jan 9th, 2008 02:48 AM |
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i 2nd daves nomination at the risk of a black flag. and adam, just a question? there are some drivers that think that break even money with a decent purse to win will bring cars in and that getting the news and paper somehow involved witha good weekly story written with excitment whether by bz or whoever could bring in more butts. however, i realise that that would require some loss nights at first possibly which may not be affordable. i know its easy to spend someone elses money, but how could we all get involved in promoting this thing we love and not just wind up with friends and family? if were gonna tear up our stuff and put on a good show it requires money ,and we can justify it to a point but that all depends on how deep our pockets are also. and jimmy,s down 30%, jimmy,s pockets are pretty empty but dang, jimmy loves racing. jimmy
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Idaho7
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Posted: Wednesday Jan 9th, 2008 04:08 AM |
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Just a question from me. what is break even money with decent to win?
DCS gets alot in the paper, way more than most. I feel we are very lucky to have what we have. WE get post race stuff almost every week, we get pre race stuff about 5 times a year. Our tracks in Boise get ZIP as do other tracks in the northwest.
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oreimca15
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Posted: Wednesday Jan 9th, 2008 04:23 AM |
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First of all I want to thank everybody for weighing in with their comments. Specifically, I was glad to see that Wade shared his opinions as a late model driver. I believe there are some who believe this will turn into a "Us versus Them" or at least want it to go in that direction. I can only speak for myself but that just is not an option. There are enough dates available for both classes.
It was not the drivers of these classes that made the decision to split the street stock cars into (2) divisions. Now these classes have low car counts as well.
As for (3) top tier divisions, lets call a spade a spade, the Sprints and Late Models were/are Adam's top divisions. Modifieds have never had the purse equal to those divisions but correct me if I'm wrong but I believe our purse was reduced by a greater percentage once Adam took over the track.
As far as I know, none of the local drivers expressed interest in seeing more traveling series come to our track. This has created fewer dates for local drivers.
Adam listed 15 modifieds as an average per night, (that may be slightly high) but then stated "that's not 25". So Adam, what would you do if we had 25 modifieds? What would you do with the 10 late models if you had 25 modifieds?
Combining the two classes may save the late model class but will destroy the modifieds as we know it. I invite everybody to ask yourself one question and please post your answers.
Knowing that a modified has a very small chance of winning a late model race next year (based on the rules as we perceive them to be), what kind of car would you build/buy if you wanted to run in the new premier division?
Thanks again for everybody's input.
Last edited on Wednesday Jan 9th, 2008 04:28 AM by oreimca15
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J-Car Guy
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Posted: Wednesday Jan 9th, 2008 04:41 AM |
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The j-cars averaged 7 cars per race excluding special event nights. A few of the regulars built hornets or moved up to a higher class or could not attend all the events or sat out the 08 season due to personal reasons. On the special event nights: Eve of Destruction 16 cars and 07 Crash Classic 12 cars.
I suggest Dan (Zoom Zoom) Crume as spokes person for the J~CAR class.
Clint, Dan says " Got a pit bull comin' "
For the Modified class i suggest Mike (oreimca15) Simmons.
I have suggestions for spoke persons for the other classes but will keep mouth shut so as not to start anything in classes I am not involved in.
Respectfully
Harry ( J~Car Guy) Kelley
PS: Flagman Rick for Complaint Department (3rdly)
Last edited on Wednesday Jan 9th, 2008 04:43 AM by J-Car Guy
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oreimca15
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Posted: Wednesday Jan 9th, 2008 05:23 AM |
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| Thanks Harry but the last thing the modifieds need is an absentee president.
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SteveGreeneRacing
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Posted: Wednesday Jan 9th, 2008 11:23 AM |
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As a rookie this coming year I suggest advertising need to be done outside of Roseburg. IE Coos bay, Reedsport, Eugene. Ive lived in Port Orford all my life and now Coos Bay for the last 3 yrs its hard to know when there are races in Roseburg. Tv? maybe on the local channels like KCBY. Radio also. Adam If you give me some posters with schedules of the races during the upcoming season Amos Rhodes and I will distribute them here on the coast. Getting attendance up will solve a lot of problems that are in all the classes. Ive been to races last year when there werent hardly anyone there and others where is was full. When the Winston West in at DCS people in Coos Bay start talking about there interest in going to races. So if people are more informed they will come! Of course gas prices arent helping any either.
Just my openion
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TerribleTim68
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Posted: Wednesday Jan 9th, 2008 03:01 PM |
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I'm gonna weigh in since I been watching this develope. You all have some good points, and congrats for doing a great job of listening to each other. That's more than a lot of tracks!
Something I've always thought of is that in todays age, TV is ineffective for the local track. To me you would be better suited going with radio and flyers. It's cheaper, and more people listen to the radio on the way to work in the car than will stumble upon your add amongst the 8-billion channels they flip back and forth on when at home. Just my view, I've done some research on pricing for those.
Honestly, to save Late Model racing I'm not convinced that putting the mods in with them is the answer. The mod guys are right, they will not be competitive. From what I've seen around the NW the mods are closer to a Limited Late Model than a full on Late Model. Ever thought about putting them in with those guys? What's the differences between you guys' Lates and Limiteds? Truely, and I'm not saying this because I run one, the Stock Clip Limited Late Model is the future. No one can afford a full on Late Model, at least not the real people, those are the ones who support the track. Leave the full on Late Models to the high end tracks and the touring series'. Stock Clip Limiteds are cheaper if you lean HEAVY on the rules and don't let them creap like full on Late Model rules do every year. Take a hard look at the LLMRS rules, the basic package is all over the USA and shows success.
All that said, please understand that it is just my opinion, I don't race at DCS except once a year when the LLMRS comes to town, so I don't kow all the inner workings of your speedway. Just offering an outside opinion. DCS is NOT the only track with the same problem, not enough Lates to fill a field, not enough fans due to small shows, not enough money to operate. Know this though, I personally go WAY out of my way to promote my series, FOR FREE! Why? Because it gives me a place to race by helping them stay around. For those who want to get involved, volunteer at the track, volunteer in the marketing end, do it for free because you love your track. You are all on the web anyway, there are PILES of media outlets on the web to talk about your track. All you have to do is give a little time, write a few articles, send a couple emails. Talk to your promoter about what he is doing, ask where he needs your help, and jump in with both feet.
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xingman
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Posted: Thursday Jan 10th, 2008 03:16 AM |
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| You guys already complain to me all the time!
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Proud father of Ricky "Hot Rod" Perry
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oreimca15
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Posted: Thursday Jan 10th, 2008 04:07 AM |
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xingman wrote: You guys already complain to me all the time!
Yes, but it's what we don't let you hear that you should worry about!
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jbrock15
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Posted: Thursday Jan 10th, 2008 04:18 AM |
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Idaho7 wrote: Just a question from me. what is break even money with decent to win?
DCS gets alot in the paper, way more than most. I feel we are very lucky to have what we have. WE get post race stuff almost every week, we get pre race stuff about 5 times a year. Our tracks in Boise get ZIP as do other tracks in the northwest.
in 06 when i started, i knew that if i qualified and went out ide get 65.00 ,i never won so dont know about that end. but it was easier to run knowing that you would have 65. at liest for fuel and entry the next race.
and im not saying your doing anything wrong,sorry if you read that in, i just want to race and a stand full of people will facilitate that. jim
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http://www.jimbrockracing.com
http://blog.jimbrockracing.com
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xingman
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Posted: Thursday Jan 10th, 2008 05:37 AM |
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oreimca15 wrote: Yes, but it's what we don't let you hear that you should worry about!
Me? Worry? No way.
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Proud father of Ricky "Hot Rod" Perry
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mrbowtie350hp
Banned
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Posted: Thursday Jan 10th, 2008 06:23 AM |
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| I heard the price of a pit pa$$ was going up, anybody else hear anything? Last edited on Wednesday Jan 23rd, 2008 04:14 AM by mrbowtie350hp
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xingman
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Posted: Thursday Jan 10th, 2008 06:29 AM |
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mrbowtie350hp wrote: I heard the price of a pit pass was going up, anybody else hear anything?
Always a breath of fresh air, aren't you Mike?
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Proud father of Ricky "Hot Rod" Perry
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mrbowtie350hp
Banned
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Posted: Thursday Jan 10th, 2008 06:45 AM |
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| I do my best not to disappoint, but there is something about Douglas County every year the price of addmission seems to go UP! Some of the ticket takers seem to think we are made of money. Last edited on Thursday Jan 10th, 2008 06:50 AM by mrbowtie350hp
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xingman
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Posted: Thursday Jan 10th, 2008 06:49 AM |
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| LOL
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Proud father of Ricky "Hot Rod" Perry
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Idaho7
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Posted: Thursday Jan 10th, 2008 07:02 AM |
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You know mike, I have posted my email address many times and you could email me anytime and I'd be happy to answer any questions.
but since you just toss it up here on this board and not even in it's own thread title with it's own topic, it's kind of hard to think that you even want an answer.
But since you brought it up, the pit pass prices will be the same as last year if you are an ASA member, if you are not a member it will be more. Anyone can be a member.
As for the gate prices at the speedway, in 2007 they were the same as in 2006 and in 2005, $8 for a weekly show. In 2008 the weekly show will be the same 8$. Oh and by the way, that is the cheapest weekly show ticket price in the whole Northwest. Most weekly shows at other northwest tracks are $10, $12 or $15..... thats the weekly show and only 2 have a venue as nice as Douglas County Speedway.
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oreimca15
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Posted: Thursday Jan 10th, 2008 08:29 AM |
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| Only one troublemaker per thread named Mike. This one's mine, go start your own......................LOL
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xingman
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Posted: Thursday Jan 10th, 2008 05:21 PM |
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oreimca15 wrote: Only one troublemaker per thread named Mike. This one's mine, go start your own......................LOL
Now that's funny Simmons! I haven't laughed that hard since the last time I got drunk!
Okay.....maybe it hasn't been very long, but that was funny.
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Proud father of Ricky "Hot Rod" Perry
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aaabobby1
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Posted: Friday Jan 11th, 2008 02:27 AM |
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